Whether Tinubu wins or loses in 2027, Yorubas are done for — Retired Commodore Olawunmi

Kunle Olawunmi is a retired Naval Commodore, former Deputy Director of Defence Administration at the Defence Headquarters (DHQ), and Professor of International Relations, Diplomacy, Strategic Studies. In this interview with PHILIP IBITOYE, he discusses Nigeria’s governance failures, constitutional reform, Yoruba self-determination, the implications of President Bola Tinubu’s administration for the Yoruba people, amongst other issues.

WHEN you look at the state of Nigeria today — the pervasive insecurity, cost-of-living crisis, and other destabilising issues — as a retired Naval Commodore, is this the country that you thought you were fighting for?

Thank you for the question. I mean, the answer is obvious. This is not the country we fought for. I spent 35 years fighting for this country, losing my colleagues. I went to Angola, Congo, Liberia, everywhere, carrying the name and image of this country. But, suddenly, we find ourselves in a situation where it is just unbelievable.

Yes, it is unbelievable that we can depreciate to the level we are now where we have criminals in government. If you go to state governments, you have criminals. There are people that have been deported from the US, arrested for one crime or the other; they ran back to Nigeria and became your governor, senator and so on. We have a situation where the people that we voted for are sponsoring terrorism. It is just unbelievable that you can vote for people that are in government and they are committing treasonable felony against the state. So, that is why I use the word unbelievable. That we now have people in government that are working against the people that voted them in. It is a bit frustrating to say the least and that is where we are today.

When some people take a critical look at all the challenges Nigeria faces, they claim there is no hope of a better future for the country. But in your opinion, what are the practical steps that can be taken to reset the country on the path to progress?

That is a very deep question. From my experience and knowledge about this country, it is a difficult answered. Because even the youth that I could have said, okay, let us see how these they fare when we handed over power to some of them; they are even worse than the elders. Look at our boys; they are into criminal activities, not because it is their fault, but because poverty has been weaponised for the past two decades. So, it has eaten so deep that I would want to join those who feel that there is really no hope. But, you see, there is always an answer to some of these issues. This country will need to experience a genuine revolution… Then, even those youth that are bad, you have to find a way to reset their minds. I was in the military when Idiagbon was around. I don’t want to mention Buhari because we thought it was Buhari, but it was Idiagbon that was actually behind initiatives such as the War Against Indiscipline (WAI) because Buhari had a second chance and he messed up big time. So, it was Idiagbon. And I know that if there is a revolution in this country, we can gather people that can actually right the wrongs that have sunk so deep. I don’t think it should take time to right the wrongs if there is a proper revolution. Not the one sponsored by United States or by our politicians, but genuine revolution in this country should be my answer. Short of revolution, there is no hope.

What would a revolution in this context look like?

Except you want me to take part in the revolution. If I am to take part in revolution, I know what to do, because that is my training. But what should it look like? It has to be spontaneous. It should not be like something that you organise, because once you organise, you are going to be infiltrated, you are going to be sponsored by the same politicians you want out. So, it has to be something that is spontaneous, whereby people get tired and they say no. Enough is enough. Then new leaders will emerge from that kind of revolution. That is how it happens. If you study all the revolutions that have happened, it is not something that is really well-planned. The leaders will just emerge during those skirmishes and people will listen to them.

Reading your previous statements, you acknowledged that the current constitution, which many have argued is the foundation of all the problems facing Nigeria today, does not contain mechanisms to allow self-determination by the people. In a situation where you don’t have that process, what can be done with the limited options you have for the Yoruba self-government that you envision?

I will still repeat what I said before it is revolution, because you have to kick out all these people, kick out the constitution, kick out all those senators in Abuja. There’s no legal process to kick out the constitution, that is why I’m answering like that. I have deepely studied these issues of: Yoruba Nation, Biafra, and the rest. So, I know the problem and that is why I wrote that article (on Yoruba self-determination). In fact, Tinubu to me, and to some of my colleagues, has killed… he has destroyed the Yoruba race because of his attitude in governance, okay? We had Obasanjo, who is a Yoruba man; you saw how he behaved. Now another Yoruba man, so, I am saying that we are just tired of this, kind of Yoruba people emerging as our leaders, and they have destroyed our image. Yorubas are not like this. This is not who we are. How did we get to this point? So, for me, if you want to talk about the constitution, you can’t change this constitution. You know why? You need the legislative arms and their goodwill at the National Assembly and the state assemblies. I know the process. The Abuja section is Fulani-Hausa/Northern-heavy, they will not allow it to go through. The governors that we have, even in South-West, are already bought, you understand? They are not Omoluabi again. I don’t know how we got here. You can’t even say, okay, the South-West governors should come together and talk and let us do this. They have been compromised so badly that we can’t do much, okay?

And if we can’t use our South-West governors, we cannot use the senators, both at state and federal level, how then do you change the constitution? Look at what Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, the former president, did. He set up a Constitutional Conference; they did it, spent a lot of money, and came up with a white paper. Then he left — they basically hushed him out of government and killed the report. So, how else do you want to change the constitution if a whole president of this country set about doing that and failed? They said the blood of the baboons will do something, and basically they chased him out of Aso Rock. And when they got to Aso Rock, Buhari killed the report. Look at the Stephen Oronsaye Report. The report also could have helped, but they killed it.

Now, what is making me write that article (on Yoruba self-determination), or what is giving me strength is that now we have a Yoruba man there who is our son, who I actually thought would make a difference. And he also pronounced that he is going to turn around the Oronsaye Report, in 2024. Now he has not done it three years, almost four years down the line. The Confab Report is lying in Aso Rock there. We know. He has not touched it. And he is a Yoruba man. That is why I wrote that article, because I don’t care whether you are Yoruba, Hausa, or Igbo. If you start behaving in a way that jeopardises the interest of the people that voted you in, I don’t care whether you are my brother, I will talk to you and that is why I wrote that piece. Tinubu has disappointed us all. And I am ready to take him on anywhere, because he should know better. You cannot be this greedy and self-centred — he has sold this country out to the United States and France. For what? Look at our minerals now. How many billions of dollars has he just signed out for the United States, just to stay in power? The French people have taken over our tax system. How can a Yoruba man do that? I was a Defence Attaché in Paris for four years. I know the French very well. I know how they cheated the French-speaking countries both in Africa and in the Caribbean. I know. I cannot dream that the Nigerian president will now go to France to sell out our country; it is something I cannot dream about. And he did it.

Last week now, he signed off all our mineral resources to the United States. Who does that? Just to remain in power? So, I will talk to him whether he is my younger brother or my elder. Whatever he is, I will talk to him, because this country is bigger than him. I told Buhari the same thing, that this country is bigger than an individual. So, once you are there, whether you are my uncle or my father and you are misbehaving, we have to speak out so that the people can have a sense of relief. All our children are prostitutes now. All our boys are into crime. That is why I even said that to even think about the solution to Nigeria’s problems is difficult, except you have a revolution. The youth are gone; our parents are gone. What is left? So, the constitutional issue cannot be resolved; that is why I mentioned the Oronsaye Report, I mentioned the Confab. Now, see where we are. The Yoruba man, Tinubu, now is there, he cannot implement that same Oronsaye Report. He cannot implement the resolutions of the Confab. He is busy trying to win the next election, to do what with it? I don’t mind if he wins or loses; that is not my issue. Because whether he wins this election, and I want you to quote me, whether he wins or loses this election, it is a loss to the Yorubas. At least Buhari when he was there, he empowered all the Almajiris in the North. That is why they are so powerful now. I don’t know how many people that Tinubu has empowered since he became president in the South-West, except Gilbert Chagoury (the Lebanese businessman who has been a major beneficiary of Federal Government construction projects in the past three years) that he empowered. I don’t know how many other Yorubas that he has empowered. So, that is why I decided to write that article. The fact that he is the president and from Yoruba land does not speak well for us; he is representing us.

In your statement, you expressed fears that the actions and failures of Tinubu’s government may be increasingly presented as the collective project of the Yoruba. From history, some people still maintain today that an Igbo man or woman can never be president because of the 1966 coup. Do you think there is hope of Nigeria moving past this inclination to judge a group based on the actions of a few individuals?

I am a student of history, I am a professor of International Relations, Diplomacy, Strategic Studies. I know what I am saying. I know some people will come out and say I’m talking nonsense, but they will get to know later. Let me tell you, what you just said now actually summarises my fear. I remember the so-called Igbo coup. Till today, the Igbos have been ostracised from governance of this country. Now, Tinubu is doing the same thing. That is why I say whether he wins or loses, we are done for. Yorubas can never have mouth to speak anywhere again! Let’s say he wins this upcoming election and rules till 2031, that is the end of Yoruba leadership in this country. The damage, the destruction, the injury is too deep. Yorubas cannot come up again and say they want to rule this country now. How are you going to do it? I want you to quote me: Except Tinubu can facilitate a Yoruba Nation, I am not talking about true federalism, I am talking about a nation of Yorubas emerging now, we are in trouble. If he does not do it, or he does not facilitate it, let me tell you, once he leaves government in 2031, we will be a slave in this country. The Fulani will take over all the South-West. You cannot talk, because they have the army, they have the police, they have everything under them, and they can overrun you and you can never come near that presidency again, maybe in the next 30 years, just like the Igbos, maybe forever. The only thing he can do for us as Yoruba now is to facilitate for us to have our self-determination and I am saying that, and I want to be quoted. Because if he does not and he leaves that government in 2031, we are done for; Yorubas are done for! And our children, unborn children, are done for! Because I remember what happened during Buhari; it took me a lot of courage to come out and speak against the cabal and they declared me wanted.

So, you can imagine when Tinubu leaves in 2031 and another Fulani becomes president, then the Fulani will take over, and they will enter all your forests, all your towns, all your ministries, everywhere. What can you say? Can you now say, “Okay, you want to resist?” You can’t, because Tinubu has spent eight years and he has messed up everywhere. So, what are we going to do? That is why I am intervening now. It will be another five years for Yoruba people to wake up; they are always sleeping. And when I talk, they will say I am saying nonsense. Then five years later, it will now dawn on them.

Lastly, you also said Yoruba people should neither defend bad government because the president shares their ancestry, nor accept collective blame for policies over which ordinary Yorubas had no special control. So, what do you say to people who say, “This candidate is bad, but I’ll vote for him because he’s my tribesman, he’s Yoruba”?

No, don’t get me wrong. I am speaking more deeply than elections now. Let’s say you now vote for him, I don’t care. Let’s say he wins; I am telling you that if he wins this election, we are done for,; we are dead as Yorubas. If he loses this election, we are dead and buried. That is what I am saying. I am not talking about, “Oh, maybe you should not vote for him because he’s a Yoruba man.” I say vote for him, we are done; don’t vote for him, we are done. We are already dead. So, the only repair he can do now is to facilitate a Yoruba nation to come out from this contraption. If he cannot do that, Yoruba people reading this should know that they are done for, except some of the criminals among us in Yoruba land that are benefiting from the status quo right now. Those are the ones that will say what I am saying is wrong, or what I am saying is nonsense, because they are benefiting from this iniquity that we are seeing. And they are fewer than 0.00001 per cent of the people. So, I am speaking for the majority.

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