Immediate past governor of Kwara State and former Chairman of the Nigeria Governors\u2019 Forum, Dr. Bukola Saraki, in an interview with journalists at the end of the induction ceremony for newly-elected governors in Abuja speaks on the activities of the NGF and the state shortly before the end of his tenure. OLUSOLA FABIYI was there. There was a time some of your colleagues moved to unseat you. How did you survive the coup plot?<\/span><\/p>\n I was contesting as a presidential aspirant on the platform of the Peoples Democratic Party; and of course politics sometimes comes into this type of issues, but at the end of the day the kind of forum we had set up preferred pushing for democracy, rule of law and due process. I think it just shows the maturity of the forum (by rejecting the coup). It just shows that truly the forum has arrived because in the past those kind of activities would have been successful but the members of the forum said, \u201cno, we as the governors forum are the ones advocating for good governance, democracy, due process, how can we as a forum forget that he is our chairman. This is not even about our chairman alone, but this will be a dent on all of us. If we can have a meeting somewhere that did not follow due process, then how do we have the credibility?\u201d So that shows you the calibre of the forum and that is the way I see it. I think it was a turning point and immediately after that, we set up a committee because in the past we never really had defined rules and procedures. For example, do we have any rule that spells out what a chairman has to do if he\/she wants to contest for a position? Does he resign? Does he stay? We didn\u2019t have those kinds of guidelines. But that period we knew what was right. Was it right for a group of people to sit down and just say \u201cYou are no longer chairman, this is the chairman?\u201d It just shows the command, the respect or belief and confidence one had in the members, other colleagues. But more importantly, it also shows us how the governors see the forum.<\/span><\/p>\n Every Nigerian believes that the Governors\u2019 Forum is the strongest political pressure group in the country\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n \u2026That is true.<\/span><\/p>\n When President Olusegun Obasanjo was in power, the Governors\u2019 Forum was not as powerful as it is today. Why?<\/span><\/p>\n I learnt a lot from my experience under former President Obasanjo, then, I was a member of the forum and used that experience to ensure that the governors worked together in the interest of Nigeria.<\/span><\/p>\n It is not that people don\u2019t know the right thing to do but personal interest won\u2019t let them. The governors intervened when the electoral law was going haywire. In the past, that kind of thing might not have happened because PDP governors might have taken a position like \u2018maybe it is good for us if we can have a rule that allows this kind of law that empowers the National Assembly members to be part of the National Executive Committee of their political parties and those kind of issues, or maybe this is what the leadership of the party wants, so we are all going to obey it.\u2019 But when we met as governors we said, \u201cthis might be what the PDP leadership wants, is this what is good for our democracy?\u201d I think that all decisions should be taken in the interest of the country. I think in the past, we would not have done that because individual interest would have overridden that. And it was that individual interest that the centre was playing. But I think what has happened now is that we\u2019ve all come to realise that it is better to stand on the path of what is right and what is best for Nigeria than what is best for individual interests because if you think about it, there is no way a PDP governor, ANPP governor, ACN governor will agree on something right, without rancour and it will not be in the interest of all. Otherwise the whole place will definitely break down. I mean if you look at the calibre of people in that place, these are people with very strong personalities.<\/span><\/p>\n What we have all agreed is that across party lines, let\u2019s find something that is acceptable to all of us. I think the country has more to gain in the collaboration of states and federal governments rather than just tackling one another all the time. Look at the Fiscal Responsibility Bill, Procurement Law that the states agreed to sign into law. Under Obasanjo, everybody refused to sign it. Obasanjo said \u2018go and sign\u2019 we said \u2018no we cannot sign, you cannot force us.\u2019 But under the next administration it was give and take.<\/span><\/p>\n Part of the give and take was the sharing of the excess crude account?<\/span><\/p>\n Like I said, states put in money for power. States now contribute money for police fund, that means the country is better off when we work together. I don\u2019t think we should say \u2018it is because the Federal Government is weak. It is not in the interest of the Federal Government for us to just be battling states.<\/span><\/p>\n But Nigerians think the governors forced the President to remove money from the excess crude account. Some money was even shared few days before the election\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n We all believe that we should be guided by the constitution. The constitution is very clear that even the issue of excess crude account is against the principle of the constitution. If you go by the constitution, there is nothing like excess crude. Every money that comes in must be shared. So if that is the constitution, then the Federal Government is not doing states a favour (by sharing the money). It is their (states) money.<\/span><\/p>\n Right, but because we all agreed to put Nigeria first; yes, look this is what the constitution says and that is what is legal, but you want to go about it in the interest of the economy that we all have and best practices that we see in other countries. Let\u2019s agree amongst ourselves that though we should do this, you know we will not do everything like that. We will share some; we will keep some. And if there are incidents along the way that we need to go and tap out of that money we will do that. But the way it is being sometimes portrayed is as if the governors are just bullying the centre. The centre has no right to that money. That is the truth. Even this Sovereign Wealth Fund that we signed is another good example. It shows that we are partners in progress. Agreed that we set up this sovereign wealth fund, but it is money that is meant to have come to us as states. The Federal Government cannot even touch one naira of it. If it wants to save its own, it can save its own percentage.<\/span><\/p>\n But we as states and local governments have said we would cooperate with you. By right this is what we should do but in the interest of Nigeria we will do this. Now if we are doing that and we have saved N10, or we have saved N5 and there is need to spend, it is just like if you have a savings account, it is your money you can go there and say \u2018look there is an exigency now, I need money.\u2019 The bank is not doing a favour by giving you what is yours because you could decide to take that money from my savings account and put it in my current account and let me just be writing my cheques and spend it. That is what the law says. But sometimes, the impression given to the public is that \u2018The governors have come, they have intimidated the President, they have co-drawn excess crude account.<\/span><\/p>\n People are worried about the sharing of excess crude because it has not been budgeted for, how do you account for this?<\/span><\/p>\n No, no, no, no, you can\u2019t say ab initio it was not budgeted for because the revenues are coming as far as any state is concerned. Before we signed the agreement on the modalities of how excess crude account should work, could a state say how much crude oil we were producing? Right, what is the amount that was received? Because it is what you receive that you share. The Federal Government on its own say benchmark is N65.00. Did my assembly agree that the benchmark is 65? The constitution says all revenues must be shared. So you now earn N100, you now say we are only sharing N65. Who is sharing that N65? That is why some people say we should amend the constitution and that there should be Accountant General of the Federation and a Federal Accountant General. So, there would be accountant general who is just representing the Federal Government. So when you say it is not budgeted for, it is because of the way it\u2019s been put out there in the public and also because of the perception that we carried over from the time of President Obasanjo where governors were just perceived as irresponsible heads of governments. Otherwise, if you have confidence that the Federal government would spend its own money judiciously, why don\u2019t you think the state governor would spend his own judiciously as well? That is the perception, which is why you keep saying \u2018They just give it to them.\u2019 They just give what to them? (Laughs) It is that mindset. With the beauty of the credible elections we\u2019ve conducted now, there is no newly-elected governor, who is not going to perform. It is clear to everybody now that it is one man one vote. So if you like, don\u2019t perform, you will pay for that. I think governance will improve and I think it will even further help people to be more responsible. But I think by and large, from the kind of things we have put in place, I believe those your fears are baseless.<\/span><\/p>\n How have the Zimbabwean farmers you brought to Kwara contributed to the growth of the state?<\/span><\/p>\n I will give you the statistics\u2026 If you look at we\u2019ve done on the Zimbabwean farmers that we brought to Shongai which is where they are living, their wage bill on a monthly basis is equal to the allocation of the local government. Now, they are just one ward out of 10 wards and that will show you their impact on the economy of that community. We even joke that when we call party meetings in that local government, the party people who come from Shongai are more affluent.<\/span><\/p>\n They come on motorbikes as opposed to those who walk or take motorcycles. So their purchasing power has increased. Now if you look at dairy production today, Shongai Dairy Farms is doing about 10,000 litres a day. I don\u2019t see any other farm in Nigeria that is producing that amount of fresh milk as they are doing. Now 10,000 litres a day is nothing compared to what we are actually consuming. But it is a start and nobody else has done it. Today they are ahead and that is why they have been able to sign a pact with West African Milk Company.<\/span><\/p>\n