Islamic banking: More questions for Sanusi

In a recent interview with aviation correspondents in Lagos, the President, Christian Association of Nigeria, Bishop Ayo Oritsejafor, faulted the recent session between members of the House of Representatives and the Central Bank of Nigeria Governor, Lamido Sanusi, on issues pertaining to the Islamic banking system. Here are excerpts of the interview recorded by Okechukwu Nnodim.

after the recent explanation by the CBN governor, Mallam Sanusi Lamido, to the House of Representatives, would you say that the Islamic banking should be allowed in Nigeria?

This is a very serious moment for us as a nation. It’s a time, I think everyone must think seriously before doing anything or saying anything. Let me begin by saying that what happened in the House of Representatives was a shock. I think to most well-meaning Nigerians, it was a shock because an issue that has generated so much controversies was not well handled.

After his (Sanusi) explanation, we would have thought that a House of Representatives, which is representing a people, should have asked salient questions. A man came, he explained himself, you clapped for him and he walked away. Does it mean that members of the House understood everything he said? We are waiting to hear clearly from the leadership of the House. Let them defend what happened.

I appeal to social activists and well-meaning Nigerians not to be quiet. They may think this is an issue they are not too interested in, but tomorrow, another issue is still going to come that they will be interested in. If this issue can be treated like this in the House of Representatives, then, they should be prepared for greater things that are going to happen in the House of Representatives. I am highly disappointed.

Let me again make it abundantly clear, we are not against the Muslims, they are Nigerians. There are some Nigerians who are Muslims, some are Christians, we are Nigerians and we have known each other for years and we will always be here. I’m a bit puzzled when I listen to what is coming out from different angles. We are not basically against Muslims wanting a bank that would meet their needs. You can have a bank that will meet your needs.

What we are saying is this, does the law of this country permit the CBN Governor to spend state money promoting a sectional banking system? We are not against the non-interest banking; after all, it started from the Bible. It is the Bible that every other person has imitated or got it from. You see, it’s like someone or some persons are trying to blindfold Nigerians, but what we are against is the sectional non-interest banking.

The CBN is the CBN of Nigeria and not CBN of Northern Nigeria or of Islamic Nigeria. It’s a CBN of the Federal Republic of Nigeria that comprises everybody. Now, how do you take state funds running into billions to be promoting one kind of non-interest banking? That is a question that must be answered. It is absolutely wrong.

Number two, why must you have one set of guideline for Islamic banking and then probably you will now have another set of guidelines for other non-interest banking? That is wrong and discriminatory. For example, I have used this example severally, the education sector, we have uniformed guidelines for any person who wants to start school. Today, in this country, there are universities that lean towards Islam and Christianity, nobody is quarreling with that, but do we have separate guidelines for them? No. The ministry of education has one set of guidelines that covers the entire school system.

Do you mean there is a separate guideline for Islamic banking?

It is wrong. You are discriminating and then, you now say within CBN, you will have what is called Sharia Council of Experts, but now, after a lot of pressure, we hear that he changed it to Council of Experts. Those are just words, now this council of experts, will it include Christians? That is the question. Who are these experts? They are Islamic experts. What we expect from the CBN is one set of guidelines.

The CBN is saying non-interest banking is good for Nigeria, so, these are the guidelines. The argument from the CBN is that the United Kingdom also practices Islamic banking, does the exchequers office in Britain have a Sharia Council of Experts? Please go and find out. Now, Islamic banking in UK is a very small part of what goes on in banking industry in the UK, you and I know that. So why make a big deal out of this?

I have said it again and again, Saudi Arabia is the headquarters of Muslims; we all know them for what they are and what they stand for, we are not against them, but even in Saudi Arabia, the most important industry there is the oil industry, but do they even run the oil industry by this Sharia banking? Go and find out. How are they running it? Is it not with the regular banking?

Now, some people say Islamic banking is practiced in Indian, but is it Islamic banking that has made Indian what it is today? Let’s be honest. I repeat, we are not against Islamic banking per say, but we are against Islamic banking being separated from other non-interest banking and the CBN uses state money to fund it and creates so much tension in the country.

Why are they not telling Nigerians all other kinds of non-interest banking? Or is it that our CBN Governor doesn’t know there are other non-interest banking? He should ask. Why promote Islamic banking and not other non-interest banking?

For instance, you don’t expect me to stop selling pork because I want to do business with an Islamic bank because if I go there, the operation is based on Sharia law and the Sharia law says you can’t touch pork and automatically, I’m disqualified. So, if I want to do anything with the bank, I either convert to Islam or close down my business. There are implications to these things and we should look deeply into them.

Let me tell you this, nobody can intimidate me or the church. Our children yet unborn will ask us questions, that is, if we are alive, and say when this thing was happening what did you do? There are so many things that just happen in Nigeria that people just look and allow.

What are your views on amnesty for Boko Haram and the threat by a Christian group in the north to retaliate the killings in the region?

Well, are you surprised to hear that? Let’s start from there. Don’t be surprised. No nation survives a religious war. I pray that Nigeria will not get to that point that there will be a religious war. Boko Haram is not just a group that came up because of economic, but purely a religious group with a religious ideology. Now, how do you now give amnesty to them? Are you now going to tell them to forgo their religious belief? The only way I think you can do this, I don’t rule out dialogue, but I think dialogue should begin within the North itself, among the Muslim leaders.

We are not hearing their voices. When we had problem in the Niger Delta, we heard a lot of Niger Deltans shouting and making noise. They even went to the extent that they said the Niger Delta was doing it to create problem for the then Umaru Yar’Adua administration. But you and I know that what happened in the Niger Delta was completely different. Those boys were crying out because of discrimination, because of marginalisation and non-compensation for 50 years of exploiting oil from their land.

You go to those places, the water is no longer useful to the people, the fishes are all dead, and you can’t fish there anymore. Do you know that if you go to Escravos, fish is more expensive there than in the city. This is a place with ocean, where the rivers are and yet, fish is more expensive there. Do you also know that petrol is more expensive there than in the city? These were the things that agitated these boys. We didn’t support the violent part of it, we were part of those that supported peace in the Niger Delta. Those in government know that. We did all we could, but did you ever hear they burnt any church or mosque through all those years? Or targeted the Muslim community in the south here and started killing them? Nothing like that, but what we are seeing now with Boko Haram is purely a religious belief.

So, like I said the dialogue should start with the Northerners themselves who believe in one Nigeria. So what they should do is to meet with these boys and find a way to convince them about the way they are going and what that is going on, you don’t expect the government to just sit down doing nothing. I expect the government to beef up security and work more on the area of security.

Let me just say this, you can’t have peace without justice and you can’t have justice without truth. It is truth that breeds justice and it is justice that breeds peace. But in Nigeria you shouldn’t say the truth, but as long as we are not saying the truth, we will not have justice because justice only feeds on truth.

What is the way forward?

First of all, the government must find ways to look into the fact that the security agencies have been polarised in most cases along religious lines. Let’s be honest, these are the things they don’t want people like us to say. How on earth will bombers get into the headquarters of the police without the help of an insider? Obviously, there are people within the headquarters of the police probably even in the high ranking of the police who are of the ideology or who sympathise with the ideology.

We have them like that in most of the security agencies and as long as these people are there, whatever the security agencies plan to do, they will leak the report to these boys and so, it makes it almost impossible to actually do much in the area of security.

So, it’s important to get other means and I can’t get into details of this to be able to pinpoint some of such people. It is possible they are there within the security agencies, it will help.

I also believe that as a country, we must reach out to nations that have experience in this area, but I will not mention nations, but those in government know them. They should reach out to those nations. After all, when a terror attack happens in America, those in Europe help and when it happens in Europe, America also helps. So, what is the big deal about that? There is no big deal about it. The world has become a global village, whatever that affects one country also affects the other. So, they need to seek help in the area of training and in other areas and I don’t want to go much further on that.