No hiding place for corrupt public officials – Sam Saba

The chairman of the Code of Conduct Bureau, Mr. Sam Saba, in this interview with FRIDAY OLOKOR, speaks on the efforts to track down corrupt public officials, including the collaboration with the Nigerian Financial Intelligence Unit.

Have the President and all other public officers fulfilled the constitutional requirements of declaring their assets before the assumption of office?

Yes, I can tell you without any equivocation or any fear of contradiction that Mr. President and the vice-president have already filled their assets declaration forms and have sent them to us. They did it a few weeks back, specifically two or three days before the swearing-in.

Can we have an insight into what was declared at the beginning of their tenure and what was declared at the end?

As chairman, I don’t go into those details. The requirement is for them to fill their forms at the end of their tenure, which they have done and fill another one when they are coming in, which they have also done. The verification will be done later; they don’t do all at the same time.

What about reports from the states?

The reports I have heard from the states show that all the governors have complied before they were sworn in. This was something I reminded them of earlier at the Governors’ Forum that they needed to do that in consonance with the requirement of Section 105 of the 1999 Constitution of the Federal Republic of Nigeria.

How far have you gone with looking into the alleged corruption profile of some of the immediate past governors, particularly what they submitted and what they declared when they were coming into office?

Right now as we are talking; the CCB Board members who are commissioners are already in the states for verification. This is ongoing and we cannot finish it in one day. They have not got the details yet. I will only get the details during our board meeting scheduled for mid-June. One of the board members, who just returned, has given me an insight into his findings. For instance, in Nasarawa State, some commissioners were making lodgements of over N5m but on their assets declaration forms, they have account balances of N1,000, N2,000, and all that. These are issues we have to verify later. We have to write these banks. It has been difficult getting the truth and we intend to invite the Nigerian Financial Intelligence Unit into the matter. As a commissioner, his salary cannot be less than N1m a month. How can a commissioner be having N1,000 in his bank account?

How about some of the ex-governors and others who have foreign accounts?

It is difficult because some of them operate under different names. Only a few of them are honest with their foreign accounts. They close it and inform us that they actually operated it. But a lot of them operate foreign accounts using different names. We don’t have the capacity for proof. Before my assumption of office, I went to a minister who introduced me to his friend staying abroad. The friend is an international banker and during our discussion, she said that many legislators and governors in Nigeria operate foreign accounts. I didn’t know I was coming back to the CCB as chairman, I would have taken her contact and she would have been useful to us. She told me that many of them use the names of their wives and other pseudonyms to operate the accounts and append signatures using their left hands. Interestingly, according to her, they do this without the knowledge of their spouses. I believe that there are many public officials in Nigeria operating foreign accounts. It has been difficult tracing these foreign accounts, but we intend to invite the NFIU for assistance.

How soon are you expecting the officers on the field?

We are expecting our officers on the field in mid-June during our board meeting and hopefully, they would have finished all the verification and that is when we will begin further assets verification and investigation.

How many cases have you investigated and how many culprits have been taken to the tribunals since you took over as chairman?

There are many, but I cannot be specific. Most files are now with the Code of Conduct Tribunals. Some of them had been disposed of last year. Some of them have not been disposed of; some of them are new cases, which cannot be treated because the board of that tribunal has not been reconstituted as it only has an acting chairman.

What is the fate of ex-governor Bola Ahmed Tinubu in this case? Is it ongoing to be abandoned or it is the convocation of the tribunal that is affecting the truth about his case?

Let me ask you: Why are you people so specific about Tinubu all the time? You people have been very particular about Tinubu all the time. If you can give me a very good answer, I will answer you. Tinubu says he had no case to answer, while the CCB says he still has a case to answer. Also, a charge was filed but later withdrawn. Nigerians want to have the details, nothing else. As far as I know, up till this point in time that we are talking, his case file is with the CCT. I hope I have answered you.

What is delaying the convocation of the tribunal, despite having an acting chairman?

I cannot answer that question because I am not Mr. President.

What are the processes of putting the tribunal in place and who is responsible for nominating the chairman?

To be honest, I don’t know who nominates the chairman. It could be from the office of the Chief Justice of Nigeria or the office of the Attorney-General of the Federation and Minister of Justice. That is not my area of jurisdiction; so, I don’t want to go into details. You should go to the tribunal and find out from them. The last time I spoke with him was during a forum organised by the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission on those who were contesting the presidential election. How he is appointed is not my cup of tea.

What about the letter written by the bureau to the Economic Financial Crimes Commission on Mallam Nuhu Ribadu’s assets declaration?

I didn’t inherit the file, but let me tell you one thing, whether Ribadu filled the assets declaration form or not, that issue has been dealt with in the past. As far as I am concerned, I was on retirement then. As far as I am concerned, it is a closed matter. You will have to go back to the EFCC chairman and ask her. I don’t have the facts of what happened apart from what I have read that CCB couldn’t find his papers.

People always accuse the media of not investigating matters to their logical conclusion. That is why we want to get more details.

In whose interest is this Ribadu case? He contested an election and lost. Ribadu left the shores of this country and came back. Why do you want to reopen old wounds? Will it foster peace and engender the unity of this country? I have always told the Nigerian media to stop splashing corruption everyday on the pages of our newspapers. I have been on that campaign right from when I was secretary of the bureau. I appeal to some of your former colleagues, but they still do it. Even at international forums, they bring it: ‘Nigeria is one of the most corrupt nations in the world.’ We agree we are, but are we the only one? Some of the other countries in the international community, are they not corrupt? We are talking of FIFA now but Sepp Blatter still contested election and won. What is all that? When we try to ask questions and defend our country, they will say, ‘But we read these things in your own media.’ That was an experience I had even in Belgium. Front page, corruption! Middle page, corruption! Back page, corruption! So, we damage our own country. That is the way the world would still look at Mr. President. If you continue to bash Ribadu, the international community will say, ‘So, this guy was just an actor who was fighting corruption.’ Things must be left to lie the way they are.

But the media is the watchdog of the society…

Even though it is, must you continue to publish everything about him? Do you want to hurt his image?

We want to hold him accountable…

Why didn’t you ask him all these questions when he was contesting the presidential election?

What about ministers under the late President Umaru Yar’Adua?

Some of the past ministers under Yar’Adua have not complied, giving us different kinds of reasons, claiming that official duties were carrying them overseas. Some of them declared; some who did not declare, we are pursuing them. If you go to Asokoro now, many of the ministers, those who are coming back and those who are not sure of their coming back, are rushing to declare their assets.